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jimking · #1 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 11:53 AM

My company is thinking of getting Trueflow and scrapping Apogee2. With Apogee we would print to Apogee2 on our server. Apogee would normalize the files into pdfs on the fly. We then would create a ticket where we would drag our pdf page files into. Open Preps which is bundled in Apogee and pick our template and rip. The pdfs are inserted automatic according to their number. Then we can view the ripped files to check seps and traps. The quick read on Trueflow on these threads sounds like several more steps than the old Apogee2. In Trueflow do you have to create pdfs on your desktop first? Is Trueflow's imposition software any good? It seems as though everyone is imposing their pdfs using Indy or Quark instead. First thing that comes to mind is the proper X and Y placement of those pdfs. How well does trapping work? Is it global or can you customize it with trap zones, or both? The reason we are upgrading is Apogee2 is not compatible enough with Adobe CS.

geozinger · #2 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 12:20 PM

Jim,

Do you mind if I ask why you're considering Trueflow? Are you using a Screen image or platesetter?

There are so many choices in workflows, that it is almost mind-boggling. I had this distinctly unpleasant task a couple of years ago. When we went computer to plate with Screen equipment, we ended up with a Xitron Xenith Extreme workflow. But we had been Xitron customers before as we also had it on one of our Screen CTF's. I can't complain about the workflow, seems to work well for us and the type of work we do. (We are a commercial sheetfed offset printer.)

I should add that I don't have anything against the Trueflow, I'm just curious. I've been in your position and I occasionally wonder if there would have any advantage to purchasing the Trueflow over the Xitron, but from what I read in the forums, I don't see it.

I would think it would be pretty easy to scan the other workflow forums and get a good idea of what problems people are having.

Just a thought...

jimking · #3 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 12:54 PM

We are a commercial offset printer also. We have 3 40" presses and several small presses and guess what? We still output film not direct to plate, but not for long. However we are looking at other options. The buzz I keep hearing is Trueflow however. I did some reading of the threads and it appears there's extra steps in Trueflow which if it is the case, I'm not going to like it perhaps. I want something with the fewest amount of steps to get the job done. So much time is spent just fixing peoples files let alone spend more time than nesesary just running good files through the workflow.

geozinger · #4 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 01:26 PM

Jim,

Don't feel bad about the film workflow, it was (and still is) a very well-sorted out way to produce plates. Sometimes I think that we would have all been better off waiting for a good CTcP (computer to conventional plate) solution, there by eliminating film, but not the good conventional plates that the pressmen know and like. But, as Ned Kelly said, such is life...

Anyway, you should take a look at the Xitron Xenith Extreme. I know it sounds like I'm shilling for these guys, but I'm happy with my setup. We have Xitron Xenith workflow out to a Xitron Raster Blaster which feeds my Screen PTR 8000 Mk II. The Xenith also directly drives my Epson 9600 for contract proofs. We use a EFI-Best RIP for color management on the proofs, a legacy from our earlier workflow. If I can squeeze a few shekels out of the boss, I'd like to drive that with a GMG (maybe) or put everything into the Xenith and run it from the RasterBlaster.

The Xenith also spits RIP'ed TIFF files to our Xitron Navigator NT which drives our HP 1055 for imposition proofs. Again, when we can swing it, I will retire the Navi NT and run all of my proofs off of the RasterBlaster. We still have a Screen DTR 3075 (CTF) attached to the Navi (although the Navi is a slave to the Xenith) which is our back up plan in case CTP fails. However, 4 months on, our PTR 8000 is a workhorse times ten. Other than minor glitches when we were starting up, no real downtime. We currently have the DTR 3075 for sale, because we have no need to turn it on...

Good luck with your search. I know it's a big decision, research well and you'll have no problems. Talk to everyone you know and a few people you don't

Just don't let management get cheap on you. Get the right tool for the job, otherwise, it will be a long awful time with equipment you don't trust/like.

prepress_brillance_43 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 01:27 PM

I do my impo in Indy alot because of the mixed trim sizes we gang on a sheet.(which I save ALL of as templetes, so the impo even though manual doesnt take long) I also have tons of "hot folders" saved in trueflow, each with different impos, so if I do get a job in that is running by itself or in a pretty basic step and repeat templete, IT IS VERY EASY. I do have to "perfect" pdf's as they come in, but you have to pretty much do that in preflighting anyway, right?... just my ramblings of such. hope it helps. Have you gotten to "see" TF in action yet(actual production not webinar)?... see if you can with a shop near you that is running it, if there is one.... this would help you in seeing if it is compatable with your jobs... :P

edgar · #6 (**permalink**) 11-29-2005, 02:05 PM

Yeah! Come on to Mexico to see Trueflow in real action! (Just Kidding)

Jim, latest versions of Trueflow seems like the Apogee X interface. Trueflow can do PDF and all the steps in a workflow. Trueflow has an imposition application called Flatworker and seems to me that is some different to Preps but as many impositions apps doing Flatworker saves impo templates in the trueflow server for register in your workflow.

We normally work with hotfolders workflow in Trueflow and is easy and fast, but one thing I have seen in TF is that I can't change the imposition template while the job is being processed by Trueflow even if the job is in stand by and the client application takes over 100 mb of ram when it is open, so you need more ram in your cpu to run client application.

I was ready to change my trueflow but when thinking twice I prefer to upgrade my Trueflow and my cpu server. Trueflow works well with PDF from all apps. We do trapping for all jobs with no problems and you can edit your traps.

Hope this large could help.

SeanDawson · #7 (**permalink**) 11-30-2005, 07:19 AM

Hello Jimking,

I would love to answer any questions that you may have. You can reach me on my direct line @ 949-477-4817. If you have not seen a demo I would suggest that you get that worked out. I can even do that for you.

Thanks.
Sean
ScreenUSA
Tech Support

svenscreenfreak · #8 (**permalink**) 11-30-2005, 08:43 AM

I've worked with several systems (apogee, scangraphic) with preps soft, dynastar etc...For some years now I'm working with screens trueflow, and once you've got the hang of it, it's the fastest and most fun to work with system. I'm happy I chose for trueflow and flatworker, and no I don't have shares in screen

)

jimking · #9 (**permalink**) 11-30-2005, 03:35 PM

Thanks everyone for their response! Geozinger I'll look into Xitron Xenith Extreme. Its gotta be good if it has a RasterBlaster! It sounds like a common sense type workflow. Prepress_brillance_43 and svenscreenfreak so I take it that Flatworker can only handle one page size, not different sizes on the same template? Edgar stated that once the template is in use you can't change it? For example if I had 2 seperate 16pg 4 color jobs on 25x38 SW, I can only rip one and release to image before starting the second one? Thanks again everyone.

edgar · #10 (**permalink**) 11-30-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimking

Thanks everyone for their response! Geozinger I'll look into Xitron Xenith Extreme. Its gotta be good if it has a RasterBlaster! It sounds like a common sense type workflow. Prepress_brillance_43 and svenscreenfreak so I take it that Flatworker can only handle one page size, not different sizes on the same template? Edgar stated that once the template is in use you can't change it? For example if I had 2 seperate 16pg 4 color jobs on 25x38 SW, I can only rip one and release to image before starting the second one? Thanks again everyone.

As for one page size imposition in Flatworker, you must buy the complete version of Flatworker for making different page size imposition. You might ask to Sean Dawson or the Screen contact for prepare the best configuration for your needs.

As for the templates, Once you send a PDF to a Hotfolder with a template integrated, Trueflow starts to process your pdf through the workflow steps attached to that hotfolder. If you stop the process even before to start the imposition step, you can't change that template.

You must see a Trueflow demo and put it to work as you normally work. Is just like buying a new car "Drive it, feel it and you decide"