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AgentCooper · #11 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 08:52 AM

Actually you've helped narrow down a few things.

If rasteriaztion of illustrator files is what we have to do....then, I want Trueflow to hit the road. That would casue a lot of workflow issues in the graphics dept.

We did find out the issue with the centering thing. It was an option in Trueflow where they had it checked as "media box" and it needed to be "trim box". I just had a feeling it was something like that.

As for the jagged text issues......I'm supposed to have a webinar this afternoon with screen. I'll need to address those issues and see if they have some input.

I just think that if an illustrator .eps file doesn't run properly then Trueflow is just about useless. I mean that is the working file! No distilling, no flattening, no pdf, it's the actual art. If it can't handle a straight forward file like that what good does it do?

SeanDawson · #12 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 10:04 AM

Hello Agent Cooper,

Regarding your statement:

Quote:

just think that if an illustrator .eps file doesn't run properly then Trueflow is just about useless. I mean that is the working file! No distilling, no flattening, no pdf, it's the actual art. If it can't handle a straight forward file like that what good does it do?

In reading through the thread, we are talking about Transparency issues mainly. Lets start out with a couple of basics with Trueflow. Trueflow can take Transparency Natively. Meaning that you do NOT have to flatten files before sending to Trueflow. When sending anything other than a PDF (Acrobat Compatability Level 5+) you WILL be flattening the file. We prefer that you do not do this and is probably causing your issues.

Thought I would state that for the record, because I could go on and on about this.

Anyways, when one of our guys does the Webex with you, you will get the answers you need.

Regards,

Sean
ScreenUSA

prepress_brillance_43 · #13 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 10:24 AM

I think I remember hearing about other folks having some of the same issues and they werent using Trueflow, I sure wish I could find those threads...... It is more of a type interacting with the transparency or mask than the rastering that truflow does, because(and I could be wrong here) but doesnt ANY RIP raster the file at some point to send it to the platesetter?... whether it is at the VERY end or somewhere along the way... again I could be wrong about that, but I thought the idea with the different versions of pdf's 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 etc etc, was to keep the transparency "live" as long as possible, but it all gets flattened/rastered eventually....

Edit: after reading Shawn's post. Maybe I am wrong and Trueflow does not flatten/raster at the end, IF it is the right version pdf.

AgentCooper · #14 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 10:35 AM

Good info guys....keep in mind I'm not the person who actually works in TrueFlow. I'm in charge of graphics and the reason for trying to find some anwers here is mainly due to constantly getting what we would consider very normal files sent back to us for problems that we have never had before.

I'm almost certain most of these issues are on the Trueflow settings side. I find it hard pressed to believe that all of a sudden a lot files we send out to the stripping dept. have new problems. I don't think Trueflow is the problem I think there are settings and maybe a learning curve that we haven't caught up with.

Yes, you will always have files that are just wacked...but some of the problems we have had are with VERY basic vectored illustrator files. Clean as clean can be. So to me, that points to how it's being loaded into Trueflow and how it's being plated from Trueflow.

SeanDawson · #15 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 11:15 AM

Helllo,

Quote:

Originally Posted by prepress_brillance_43

It is more of a type interacting with the transparency or mask than the rastering that truflow does, because(and I could be wrong here) but doesnt ANY RIP raster the file at some point to send it to the platesetter?... whether it is at the VERY end or somewhere along the way... again I could be wrong about that, but I thought the idea with the different versions of pdf's 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 etc etc, was to keep the transparency "live" as long as possible, but it all gets flattened/rastered eventually....

You are correct with this statement. Trueflow can take the Native Tranparency it will do a Flattening process on its own down the line. All Adobe Core Products have to do this at one point or another.

Regards,
Sean

prepress_brillance_43 · #16 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanDawson

Helllo,

Quote:

Originally Posted by prepress_brillance_43

It is more of a type interacting with the transparency or mask than the rastering that truflow does, because(and I could be wrong here) but doesnt ANY RIP raster the file at some point to send it to the platesetter?... whether it is at the VERY end or somewhere along the way... again I could be wrong about that, but I thought the idea with the different versions of pdf's 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 etc etc, was to keep the transparency "live" as long as possible, but it all gets flattened/rastered eventually....

You are correct with this statement. Trueflow can take the Native Tranparency it will do a Flattening process on its own down the line. All Adobe Core Products have to do this at one point or another.

Regards,
Sean

ah!! and if type is behind a mask or transparency, it gets flattened with the image as if it was part of the image. This is exactly why when in illy, the type needs to be brought to the front or put onto its own layer.

I also get type that "fattens" IF> it is reverse(white) and has been converted to outlines. *doesnt show on proof* only once trueflow sends to plates.

My ONLY fix for this is to raster the inflicting type in illy at 600dpi with a transparent background. AND if the pdf is not from Illy then I have to lay a transparent box on top of the file and run the optimizer in acro 7 to raster the whole file, then my type does not fatten. but the whole file becomes raster and you lose editability and *IMHO* print quality.

just my observations. I work around you hardware/software guys no matter what bugs you throw at me. :lol: I HAVE to, Im in prepress. :lol: :P

AgentCooper · #17 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 12:09 PM

Well, what about the postcard job we had the other day?

Once side printed just fine. The other.....pixelated type. Both sides had the same font and both sides had placed images.

The type that pixelated was near a placed image, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.

The type was a process color sitting on top of a blue box. Layed out in illustrator. The PDFs were generated out of illustrator and sent to our stripping dept. So, it cam back with the jagged text but only on the back side even though both sides were generated out of the same application.

So, I took the PDF and opened it up in illustrator. I selected the type and created it to outlines and saved it as a PDF, re-sent it to stripping and bingo! It printed fine this time.

My issue with that is........if the type being created to outlines fixed it. That is not going to be doable for every job that comes through. Like a lot of print companies we don't always get our customers to play by the rules and include their fonts with every job. Especially if they send in a press ready PDF. I'm still not sure if that was indeed the problem though....because the front side did fine.

SeanDawson · #18 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prepress_brillance_43

My ONLY fix for this is to raster the inflicting type in illy at 600dpi with a transparent background. AND if the pdf is not from Illy then I have to lay a transparent box on top of the file and run the optimizer in acro 7 to raster the whole file, then my type does not fatten. but the whole file becomes raster and you lose editability and *IMHO* print quality.

just my observations. I work around you hardware/software guys no matter what bugs you throw at me. :lol: I HAVE to, Im in prepress. :lol: :P

Can you send me an Illustrator File that you have been having an issue that will still show this problem? If it is small enough, email it to me sdawson@screenusa.com. If it is too large, email me and I will reply back with FTP info.

Regards,
Sean
ScreenUSA

prepress_brillance_43 · #19 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 12:30 PM

from what I have seen, it has to do with in front of and behind of. the front that did not pixelate for you was correct and the type near the placed images had been brought to in front of the image, on the back of the postcard, not so correct. The type is "behind" the placed image, even though it looks like it is beside, if you have pitstop or can view in wireframe you could see what I am talking about. I will post a screen capture shortly.

AgentCooper · #20 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005, 12:35 PM

I know the difference between "in front" and "behind" type and images. That is not the case with this. The type is indeed on top of all the art. I know you guys are just giving all the options though....I don't want that statement to come across as being testy! Ha ha.

I will send over the original (the one that pixelated) here in just a sec.

Again, keep in mind that the one that ran fine all I did was create the font to outlines. I did not bring it to front or send the placed image to the back.