Training Newbies

[hotmetal]

Originally Posted by nocampo

Come to think of it, why don't I just get a loan from a bank and create a school for pre-press dummy's.

Dang. Guess I need a new title for my next book, "Prepress for Dummies"

How about: "Harry Potter and the PDF of Doom"

or: "Something Pixelated This Way Comes"

maybe: "Zen and the Art of XML Implementation"


I'd like that beer now, please.

[C2C]

I just wish the big agencies would start pushing the design schools to teach a real design for print class. Something more than, "Everything must be 300dpi, and CMYK".

Funny.
Its about all my college taught in 2 years of classes.
[ not including the: English / Spanish / math classes all around the gr.8 level in difficulty ]

that and how to clone.
Hours upon Hours of cloning. (5+ at a time) 3-4 days a week.
300 dpi rule and....... using levels. about it for Photoshop.

and lets not forget Corel Draw 8.

the only program I'm glad we did go somewhat in depth with is Illy.
(minus the manual trapping, separation outputs, and creating paths)
(as I personally, do none of this at my job)

What I learned in college vs what Im learning in the Pre-press dept of a packaging co.. is Two entirely different worlds

Ive checked the college courses and it seems they have narrowed down what they teach to actually be usable in the 'real world'

[beermonster]

well - a few years back i signed up for an "advanced photoshop" course - i did this as my missus was doing the same course (we didnt have a mac at home then) and we decided i could help her by doing the same course etc etc

so off we went

verrry bizzarrrre! the trainer/teacher fellow spent all his time working with all the other students tarting up their CV's! - using.......ILLUSTRATOR!

so we got to work in photoshop and i had a chance to teach some stuff to my missus and she did ok.

the teacher kept asking me about illustrator - how to do this and that - and the other students were very grateful.

then the teacher started asking me about photoshop and i had a whole class at my beck-and-call! the students were happy with their new shiny cv's - my missus was happy as she learnt buckets off me and did some cool designery type stuff, and i was happy one 2 counts..

1> i didnt pay for my course - my boss at the time did

2> i saw a whole new crop of "desighners" about to be released into society and keep us in jobs

and thirdly....well...wont go into that one :lol:

i still have the certificate too - makes me chuckle when i look at it

[hotmetal]

ok, just as I think this thread has died for good, it pops up again

the one thing I really need to see - in Photoshop files, particularly, but this happens in other apps - bleeds. Just... bleeds, damnit.

if I had a nickle for every time the boss said "oh, just make the image a little bigger to make the bleeds" and then had the client go ballistic because the type was no longer sitting over the cow's nose because the image moved down and to the right an eighth of an inch...

Even long-time "experienced" artists making truely fantastic wonderous art in Photoshop continue to build their work to the trim size. I'm guessing that, if their teacher mentioned bleeds at all, it was on the last day of the semister and all the students were thinking about was the big party later that night as they chewed gum, listening to their iPods and staring out the windows at the bright blue sky.

Cloned away, cloned away, cloned away, cloned away, where do you go when you're clo- oned a- way. (sung to the tune of "Towed Away" which is sung to the tune of "First Noel" etc.)

[Jezza]

In my experience 'bleed' is a thing of complete mystery to all designers. The clone tool is your freind. Just bill 'em for the time

[born2print]

Backing up a little,
I did teach a course at a Jr. College for 1 semester that was the vision of the dept. chair (who was an old printer/artist) and the PIA - GATF...
It involved the curriculum one would want to give future Prepressers, indepth materials and lectures on print history, font handeling, color science, imposition, etc... paired with realistic assignments in Pshop, Illy and Quark (InD wasn't out yet)
And students could get class credit + test for GATF certificate.

Sounds like what the world's needed for decades right?

Well, it didn't work out, here's what happened:
•70% of the students were looking to enroll in "design" and thought they had found "an extra class that wasn't full yet" (AKA the lame classes mentioned above with hours of cloning) and dropped immediately when I clued them in and passed out the syllabus.
•PIA-GATF ought to be shot for what they charges for a couple of soft-bound books and a few CDs, $HUNDREDS that the students were forced to pay or drop out.
•Anyways, maybe it's just no "fun" to learn to make a perfect shape at an exact coordinate with a correct color designation using a postscript font. Maybe we're just weirdos!

(The scool chose to kill the class after just the 1 semester, but I'm sure they still fill multiple classrooms of "design" clases)

[hotmetal]

Originally Posted by Jezza

In my experience 'bleed' is a thing of complete mystery to all designers. The clone tool is your freind. Just bill 'em for the time

we do very large format printing

not that I mind, it's what I do, but I've spent 5 hours putting bleed on a silkscreen job that runs 50"x12' and it makes my eyes go wonky

(I'm not convinced our clients get billed for this or even get told about it. Salesmen are afraid the client will go find another printer if they bring this stuff up. My last employer, 9 years ago, mind you, when we were doing this stuff with Quadra 950s, refused to bill for it and went out of business while wondering why his prep costs were so high.)

[born2print]

Originally Posted by hotmetal

we do very large format printing

not that I mind, it's what I do, but I've spent 5 hours putting bleed on a silkscreen job that runs 50"x12' and it makes my eyes go wonky

(I'm not convinced our clients get billed for this or even get told about it. Salesmen are afraid the client will go find another printer if they bring this stuff up. My last employer, 9 years ago, mind you, when we were doing this stuff with Quadra 950s, refused to bill for it and went out of business while wondering why his prep costs were so high.)

We have benefitted for years by having a "Cost Variance Form" that gets attached to the paperwork, sales has to collect it or show it in the quote or get the Pres to sign off. NEVER leave upcharges to sales descression!!! They rarly have the motive to go after that money on their own.

Note: this is not to be confused with a common system such as a "change order" which would usually involve a requote.

[Jezza]

exactly

[firefighter26]

I guess I got it a bit easier. The CSR at the front desk has a history in pre-press. Sure, its pre-computer pre-press, but she still knows what questions to ask; and more importantly, what answers are the right ones to get from the customers!!!

She is pretty much the point of contact for customers and I rarely see them in the pre-press room.

If a designer sends in files I have a check list that put them through, sorta like our own personalized pre-flight. If there are issues the files are sent back with a list of the deficiences and the customer is presented with two options 1) correct it themselves; or 2) pay the shop rates for us to correct them.

The big one I get are phone calls from people "designing" something and they are stuck or lost. I try to keep the calls to 5 minutes max while giving them as much direction as I can; knowing that when the job does cross my desk I will have at least saved myself those headaches!!!

That beind said, we just started a new guy in the pre-press department. Its nice to know he has a history in desgin work as he used to work for the company we outsource all of our computer work to before deciding to dedicate the time, training and money into doing it inhouse.