Prepressforums.com

albonshasta · #1 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 07:53 AM

Hi,
I'm new here, but I joined the forum because I have a small question about making post rip pdfs out of rampage. As I have come to understand it, post rip pdfs are pretty much just glorified jpgs that have a .pdf tacked onto the end of them, and they are not TRUE pdfs.

just to clarify, i am talking about sending it through the "proofing" tab in rampage. I've got it set up so it makes pdfs out of there.

We have several clients who simply won't accept post-ripped pdfs out of rampage because of how low resolution they look. If I pump up the anti-alias or the quality of the pdf out of rampage, it looks better, but something that is 356K now becomes a 10 mb file. This, naturally, is unacceptable for a proof, because while it looks great, a client isn't going to want a 52 page pdf out of rampage in which each page is 10mb!

So, on to my question. Is there any way to make a pdf out of rampage and have it still look good and be relatively small?

We are running rampage 10.4 and I have acrobat 8 equipped with the newest version of pitstop professional. I have run a test file through pitstop's "resample image" action, and it took the image size down considerably, but the type became unreadable.

We are also using mac computers, but rampage is running on a pc in the back.

my fears are that there is no good way to do this, but I want to have some solid proof of this to take back to my supervisors, so i figured i'd ask some other people who use this system all day long.

any help would be very much appreciated, and i thank you in advance.

almaink · #2 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 07:56 AM

Why make them from RAMPage? I'm all PDF here and I just make a screen PDF of the one I will register in RAMPage and send that. If I want an imposed PDF proof I export one from InDesign as screen.

albonshasta · #3 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 08:03 AM

I would do that, but these clients are nuts and want to see what it looks like AFTER it has been ripped. Unfortuatetly, the "powers that be" have made it our policy that we send out post rip pdfs to the clients after running them through rampage.

One of our clients is a multimediia place, and they would accept nothing less than a post rip pdf. We actually TRIED to do what you suggested, and they sent us an email that said "we're sorry, but your proof has been declined" ...

almaink · #4 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 08:10 AM

It shouldn't "look" any different after being ripped but, if thats the case then open the ripped PDF in Acrobat and reduce the file size using File/Reduce file size. U could also use PitStop to down-sample images if it's just for screen preview. Or use the NORM workflow and send a normalized PDF. How did they know it wasn't a post ripped PDF anyway?

albonshasta · #5 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 08:23 AM

the client wouldn't know if it's a post rip or not, but our salespeople do know the difference, and they would get very angry if i tried to pass off a regular pdf as a post rip.

I tried resampling the images using pitstop, and maybe I"m doing it wrong, but when I do that, it makes the pdf very very ressy. I tried that for a girl scouts job the other day and the type was nigh unreadable.

I also have tried the "reduce file size" thing in acrobat, and it yields the same results. I almost want to say that it looks blurry when I do both of the things I mentioned.

Also, I have never tried to send it though the NORM workflow I don't think. Yeah, i just checked and we use ROOM for most of our stuff. What is the difference? This was sort of glossed over in our Rampage training sessions a few years ago, and i never fully understood the difference.

thank you very much for your help, btw, i really really appreciate it ^_^

almaink · #6 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 08:27 AM

Should you ROOM or NORM?

This has to do with the RIPing (Raster Image Processing) process. ROOM is RIP once output many. This requires RIPing early in the process. In most cases, however, RIPing has to happen several times in the course of the production process. RIP for proofing, RIP for film or plate making, re-RIP for corrections and plate remakes. By RIPing once early in the process you have no room for error and little flexibility. The need for re-RIPing is unavoidable, even if the slightest change is required.

In the ROOM workflow even if you avoid having to re-RIP, you need a great deal of storage capacity for rasterized files and complex data organization.

The only way to minimize storage capacity and maximize automation is to output a proof just before the last RIPping. This way you will know the file is OK and will not need to be RIPed again. In comparison with the costs of remaking film and/or plates, the extra proof is insignificant.

More recent workflow solutions are based on the NORM concept — normalize once, render many. Such systems work with platform-independent master files — workflow-optimized PDF files. Because they are generated at the start of the workflow, yet remain open, the same file can be used on different output systems as a proof, film, plate or Internet file. Changes can still be made. This open approach saves valuable work time and provides a previously unattainable degree of flexibility.

This process also lets you automate a number of parameters, such as imposition, trapping, screening or proofing using job tickets. Job tickets accompany the job through the various processing stages, greatly reducing the possibility of errors. The NORM concept provides the greatest productivity and security.

albonshasta · #7 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 08:31 AM

THAT is an extremely useful bit of information, and I am going to mess around with the NORM workflow this afternoon and see if I can get any different results.

Thank you so much! and thank you for your quick replies!

mwc · #8 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 09:36 AM

We use the ROOM workflow, still haven't found the NORM workflow to be competitive in our environment.

As far as RamProof PDFs (yes...a jpeg with a PDF wrapper), we have used that exclusively for sending post-rip RASTER proofs to our customers for years...with little complaints.

Our settings :
PDF JPEG
Resolution : 300
Max AA : 4
Quality : 75

Typically gives us 1-2mb files for our pages.
Seems to be the best trade off for readability and file size for us.
We typically send a tagline with the proofs like this:

PDF note:
The attached or referenced PDF file has been generated from our workflow system.
It is adequate for proofing purposes only. (it is NOT optimized for other distributions)
This is essentially a compressed 300 DPI CMYK JPEG (raster) file of your final page in a PDF document.
Sometimes a problem exists that prevents proper printing of this file from a Macintosh system.
Setting your print dialog, acrobat setting to print "as image" rather than "postscript" should resolve the problem.

albonshasta · #9 (**permalink**) 08-24-2007, 09:44 AM

I will def. try those settings! Those file sizes are great for one or two pages, but what do you do if a client requests post rip pdfs of a 52 page book or something like that?

y2b · #10 (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 07:20 AM

NORM is a pain in the ass and not as fast or consistant a workflow as ROOM

There really is no simple answer to your problem. To have your customers really see a RIP PDF, you would have to move to the Pathway...

In reality, customers need to see a hard copy proof. If all you're doing is sending a PDF for corrections, I have had good success just making them a PDF from the native application and then making sure what I send through Rampage is correct.

An alternative is while viewing the hi-res monitor proof, take a screen shot. It actually views better on your customers screen than a 300 dpi JPG PDF file, and it's really small. Of course, that's a lot of work for a 52 page book.

but if your only sending PDF's for corrections on a few pages and your customer has already approved digital color proofs, then I would try the screen shot.