force quit won't work with 10.3.8?

[Gunn]

I have a new g5 running 10.3.8. So far, while it runs great most of the time, I'm having frequent program crashes, but force quitting doesn't seem to do anything! After force quitting, the app icon in the dock still looks like the program is open, but the force quit window doesn't show the app on the list and the app does not respond.

I have repaired permissions, repaired fonts, managed sytem fonts, etc. to no avail. has this happened to anyone else? Any suggestions?

thanks!

MG

[MarkDouma]

I've had this from time to time as well. I've found the Force Quit window to be somewhat unreliable so I usually don't use it. Instead, I just hold down Control-Option and click on the application's icon in the Dock. (Including the Option key might not be necessary if OS X already senses that the application isn't responding). Then choose "Force Quit" from the popup menu. Usually that works quite well. If your first attempt doesn't work, try it 2 more times, and it should hopefully work then.

If not, you may need to bring in some heavier artillery like Activity Monitor and/or the Terminal (using a 'kill' or 'killall' shell command).

The Force Quit window seems to remove the application from the list without actually confirming that the application was successfully terminated. Usually if you close the Force Quit window, and reopen it, the application will reappear in the list.

Anyway, hope this helps....

[clod]

This has been happening to me also since upgrading to 10.3.8...been having more applications freeze up also. Using either the Force Quit window or option-clicking the icon in the Dock sometimes works, many times doesn't. Sometimes the application will eventually quit, other times it won't until I lose patience and re-start.

*that should be option-RIGHT click (if you have that kind of mouse) or just control-option-click.

[Gunn]

thanks Douma and Clod. I'll try this next time--which will inevitably be later today!

MG

[Gunn]

Still not working. Anyone have any other ideas?

thanks!

[MarkDouma]

Okay, need you to do a couple of things. Open the Terminal application and the Activity Monitor application, both of which should be in the /Applications/Utilities/ folder.

In the Terminal application, type the following at the prompt and hit return:

top

(That stands for Table Of Processes). It should, needless to say, display a list of all of your processes. Be sure to make the window bigger to fit in all of the processes. You should hopefully be able to see all the way down to the first process which has a Process ID (PID) of 0. (That's the kernel: the very first process which allows you to run other processes on top of it).

Once you've made the window bigger, look at the first line and copy and paste it here like so:

Processes:  61 total, 2 running, 59 sleeping... 209 threads            20:44:47

We'll need to see if you have any "stuck" processes. They'll show up like:

 Processes:  61 total, 2 running, 2 stuck, 57 sleeping... 209 threads            20:44:47

If you do show any stuck processes, while in the Terminal application, hit Command-N to open a new Terminal window. In that window, type the following at the prompt and hit enter:

ps auxww

This should spew out a whole bunch of text that will look somewhat like the feedback from the 'top' command, except that it just gives you back some text rather than running continuously. Copy and paste that text into a thread here and I can take a look at it for you.

(By the way, if you want to stop the Terminal window that has the 'top' process running in it, type Control-C.)

You can also try to force a process to quit by using the Activity Monitor application. First of all when you see the main window, choose "All Processes" from the Show popup menu in the toolbar of the window. That should show you all the processes that are running on your Mac, similar to the way the 'top' command did in the Terminal, but in a slightly more graphical format.

In this case, you can force a process to quit by selecting it in the table view and choosing the "Quit Process" toolbar item.

Just be careful what processes you attempt to force quit. As a general rule, the lower the process's PID, the more critical the process is to the overall proper functioning of the operating system. If you find the "loginwindow" process, you should basically be okay if you force quit any application that has a higher PID than that.

Hope this helps....

[Gunn]

SO NICE OF YOU to take a look at this for me!

I didn't show any stuck processes:

Processes: 53 total, 3 running, 50 sleeping... 122 threads 11:16:08

but let me know if this (see below) means anything to you. I don't know anyhting about this, but I'm wondering where all the Norton stuff came from since I haven't run it for ages and all auto-protect settings are off. THANKS AGAIN for trying to help!!!!

MG



ps auxww
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
gunnm 350 28.1 11.8 165884 30912 ?? S 11:09AM 0:58.20 /Applications/Extensis Suitcase X1/Extensis Suitcase X1.app/Contents/MacOS/Extensis Suitcase -psn_0_1441793
gunnm 363 3.4 6.7 145164 17496 ?? S 11:11AM 0:06.19 /Applications/Utilities/Activity Monitor.app/Contents/MacOS/Activity Monitor -psn_0_2490369
gunnm 360 3.0 6.5 141652 16972 ?? S 11:11AM 0:02.48 /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app/Contents/MacOS/Terminal -psn_0_2359297
root 364 1.3 1.2 27736 3108 ?? Ss 11:11AM 0:02.12 /Applications/Utilities/Activity Monitor.app/Contents/Resources/pmTool
root 365 1.0 0.8 27696 2200 p1 S+ 11:12AM 0:10.58 top
gunnm 359 0.6 9.1 171448 23928 ?? S 11:10AM 0:15.39 /Applications/Internet Explorer.app/Contents/MacOS/Internet Explorer /Applications/Internet Explorer.app/Contents/MacOS/Internet Explorer -psn_0_2228225
root 90 0.0 0.1 18676 264 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.07 /usr/sbin/notifyd
root 114 0.0 0.1 27480 348 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.07 netinfod -s local
root 116 0.0 0.0 18056 124 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.22 update
root 119 0.0 0.3 27772 740 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.10 /usr/sbin/distnoted
root 122 0.0 0.1 18080 132 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.00 dynamic_pager -F /private/var/vm/swapfile
root 141 0.0 0.1 27344 140 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.01 /usr/sbin/KernelEventAgent
root 143 0.0 0.1 27612 192 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.00 cron
root 153 0.0 4.0 39388 10484 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.61 /System/Library/CoreServices/coreservicesd
gunnm 156 0.0 10.6 194156 27752 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:10.26 /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Resources/WindowServer -daemon
root 164 0.0 0.1 27336 392 ?? S 11:08AM 0:00.02 /usr/libexec/ioupsd
gunnm 166 0.0 2.6 54228 6780 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:03.09 /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Support/ATSServer
nobody 168 0.0 0.3 27968 832 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.05 /usr/sbin/mDNSResponder
root 180 0.0 0.4 28900 1096 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.15 /System/Library/CoreServices/SecurityServer -X
gunnm 187 0.0 2.0 114236 5116 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.81 /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow console
root 194 0.0 0.0 27380 120 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.00 /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/Norton Utilities/DTDaemon
root 198 0.0 0.9 31296 2416 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.30 /usr/sbin/DirectoryService
gunnm 209 0.0 0.6 45152 1616 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.43 /System/Library/CoreServices/pbs
root 228 0.0 0.4 29184 1152 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.23 /usr/sbin/lookupd
root 238 0.0 0.2 27412 600 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.03 /Library/StartupItems/NortonMissedTasks/NortonMissedTasks
gunnm 242 0.0 1.2 134452 3260 ?? S 11:08AM 0:00.83 /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock -psn_0_393217
root 251 0.0 0.1 27328 152 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.00 /usr/libexec/crashreporterd
root 267 0.0 0.1 20120 164 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4
gunnm 281 0.0 1.8 137568 4608 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.66 /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Contents/MacOS/SystemUIServer -psn_0_524289
gunnm 282 0.0 4.1 152968 10836 ?? S 11:09AM 0:03.29 /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder -psn_0_655361
root 285 0.0 0.1 18120 148 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.01 rpc.lockd -w
root 296 0.0 0.4 28976 956 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/automount -f -m /Network -nsl
root 299 0.0 0.4 29016 1060 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.28 /usr/sbin/cupsd
root 301 0.0 0.1 18056 132 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.00 /usr/sbin/postfix-watch
root 303 0.0 0.4 28976 928 ?? Ss 11:09AM 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/automount -f -m /automount/Servers -fstab -mnt /private/Network/Servers -m /automount/static -static -mnt /private/automount
gunnm 347 0.0 0.6 120496 1528 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.08 /Applications/Microsoft AutoUpdate.app/Contents/MacOS/Microsoft AU Daemon.app/Contents/MacOS/Microsoft AU Daemon -psn_0_1048577
gunnm 348 0.0 2.0 130652 5268 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.55 /Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/Microsoft Database Daemon /Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/Microsoft Database Daemon -psn_0_1179649
gunnm 349 0.0 0.5 120144 1328 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.09 /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/Resources/iTunesHelper.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunesHelper -psn_0_1310721
gunnm 351 0.0 0.5 120124 1280 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.06 /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/Scheduler/SymSecondaryLaunch.app/Contents/MacOS/SymSecondaryLaunch -psn_0_1572865
gunnm 352 0.0 1.0 124048 2592 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.23 /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/SymQuickMenu/SymQuickMenu.app/Contents/MacOS/SymQuickMenu -psn_0_1703937
root 353 0.0 0.3 27904 888 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.06 /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/Norton AntiVirus/DiskMountNotify.app/Contents/MacOS/DiskMountNotify -psn_0_1835009
gunnm 354 0.0 0.5 120236 1368 ?? S 11:09AM 0:00.07 /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/Norton AntiVirus/ScanNotification.app/Contents/MacOS/ScanNotification -psn_0_1966081
root 361 0.0 0.9 27540 2400 p1 Ss 11:11AM 0:00.05 login -pf gunnm
gunnm 362 0.0 0.5 18644 1304 p1 S 11:11AM 0:00.03 -bash
root 366 0.0 0.9 27540 2400 std Ss 11:13AM 0:00.04 login -pf gunnm
gunnm 367 0.0 0.5 18644 1304 std S 11:13AM 0:00.01 -bash
root 368 0.0 0.1 18108 344 std R+ 11:14AM 0:00.00 ps auxww
root 1 0.0 0.1 18072 304 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.04 /sbin/init
root 2 0.0 0.1 18608 220 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.13 /sbin/mach_init
root 76 0.0 0.1 18092 212 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.05 /usr/sbin/syslogd -s -m 0
root 82 0.0 0.7 28992 1936 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:03.79 kextd
root 84 0.0 0.8 29980 2096 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.95 /usr/sbin/configd
root 85 0.0 0.4 27888 980 ?? Ss 11:08AM 0:00.23 /usr/sbin/diskarbitrationd
Mary-Gunns-Computer:~ gunnm$

[MarkDouma]

What applications are you having problems in, with them crashing? Any Adobe applications like Illustrator CS and/or InDesign CS?

If so, you may want to make sure that you have the latest updates, especially for Illustrator. The 11.0.2 Update for Illustrator CS fixes some problems that can occur when you're using Norton AntiVirus (which it looks like you're using). You may want to consider at least turning off the Auto-Protect feature, which, given the fact that there are no native OS X viruses, and the numerous conflicts it has with Adobe applications (see the Adobe User to User forums for more info), might be considered overkill (at least IMHO).

From the looks of the output of the 'ps' command, you recently did a restart prior to running it. It also shows that Suitcase was using quite a few of your CPU cycles at the sample time, way more than any other app on your Mac. Was Suitcase still in the process of starting up? Otherwise, my guess is that you've probably got auto-activation enabled, which can sometimes reduce the overall performance of a system. (Unless you were actively working in Suitcase, my guess is that it was using those CPU cycles to handle an auto-activation "missing font" query.)

You might want to try disabling auto-activation to see if you can notice any difference in performance or stability compared to having it enabled.

Oh, having no stuck processes is a good thing. ;-)

So did you try to Control-Option-click on the icon in the Dock and choose "Force Quit" three times? It seems like OS X uses a different method of trying to force the application to quit on the third try, compared to the first two tries.

Anyway, hope this helps....

[Gunn]

Hmmm.

Unfortuantely my crashes are across the board--I've crashed in Quark, Acrobat, Illustrator, Photoshop and even in the Finder!

I'll look into the Adobe updates.

I don't have auto-activate turned on from within Suitcase, but it is turned on in Quark and Illustrator which may be an issue I guess. I'll diable it across the board.

I'm not sueing Norton Anti-virus and no Norton Auto protects are running, but it Sytemworks is installed. Do you think it would be a good idea to un-install the whole thing? I've read in lots of forums that some people are very wary of Norton and OS X.

Conrtol-option-click in doc worked for me once, but nnever again. I'm not sure if I did it exactly 3 times but I feel like I did it repeatedly! This is all very frustrating! Do you think I might jsut need more RAM? I've just got the base 256.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

MG

[pcmodem]

I would definately remove Norton from your computer. I have heard nothing but problem from using it.

Turning off the Auto-Activate from Quark and Illustrator should help.

Upgrading your Ram should help too. I would rob a ram stick from a different machine (if you have one) to check and see if it helps your problem. This way you don't have to spend the money (right away) on a new ram stick if it doesn't solve your problem. I would still upgrade to at least 512 MB.

Another thing to check is what fonts you have installed in the OS. I have heard of corrupt fonts causing problems with systems.

Brian Cupp