How do I NOT embed fonts in PDF from CS

[dogbrain2]

Programs used:

Adobe Indesign CS WIN XP
Adobe Acrobat 6 Pro WIN XP
Adobe Illustrator 10 WIN XP

Please read this discussion on another board where I can't get the answer:

GOAL: To have the FONTS Used in document list in PDF Properties EMPTY on PDF output.

___________
To do this in AI 10, I would SELECT ALL, the FLATTEN TRANSPARENCY Convert Text to Outlines - Vector meter at100%, and then print my PDF. No fonts show up in the PDF.

Tried everything in Indesign CS, and I can't do it.

>Flattening transparency creates rasterized output.

Actually no, in Illustrator 10 you can set the meter at 100% and it vectorizes everything that has been SELECT ALLed, when you hit FLATTEN TRANSPARENCY. I also no it hasn't been rastered because when I soom in super close to the PDF it is vector for sure. The fonts generally look darker onscreen when I do this, but on print output they look how they should.

Ive tried everything in Indesign CS now, and it ALWAYS imbeds some of the fonts. I even select EMBED FONTS - NONE. I even went to my Acrobat Pro 6 settings deep in the menu from where in CS you go to PRINT - PDF - Set all the Indesign settings, then FURTHER go into PDF settings and I added ALL the fonts to the NEVER EMBED list, and it still embeds them.

I don't know why Indesign CS doesn't have the capability to stop the font embed. Technically it should not embed anyting when I do SELECT ALL then CREATE OUTLINES, but for some reason it still does, even though everything appears on screen as if it were vectorized.

[cari]

As you have Acrobat 6 you have a number of options:

a) Print to Adobe PDF and use an Adobe PDF Setting that doesnt embed fonts.

b) open PDF created from InDesign using Export command in Acrobat and use the PDF Optimizer (Advanced menu) to unembed fonts (and make any other changes you might want to apply).

hope this helps.

[dogbrain2]

Thanks for trying Cari but none of those solutions work.

(b) still shows fonts that were used in the document, while they do not say embedded subset beside them - after your procedure.

(a) will not work if you read my explanation above.

What I am really getting at is, where is that command in Indesign called FLATTEN TRANSPARENCY just like in Illustrator 10. I can't find it.

In illustrator 10 I just SELECT ALL - Flatten Transparency with the meter at 100% for all vector and no raster, and convert text to outlines checked ON.

[Cory]

Why don't you just convert text to outline before exporting your PDF from Indesign?

I just did a quick text and it will not show those fonts and being embedded...

[cari]

Transparency is flattened from InDesign on OUTPUT.

> If you EXPORT to PDF and select PDF version 1.3 then the Advanced section will provide Flattener options, else (1.4 or higher), will retain transparency within PDF
> If you PRINT to Adobe PDF (or any other PS device) transparency is always flattened (Advanced tab).
> When using High Resolution Transparency flattener setting, Flattening will only create rasterisation if vector isn't possible. Text could be partially outlined (which is viewable on low-res prints), moving text to higher layer or front will prevent it from being affected by flattening.

If you're bringing in native .ai files into InDesign Don't flatten them...
Let InDesign do the flattening at final stage. The later you flatten the better.

Cari

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by dogbrain2

Thanks for trying Cari but none of those solutions work.

(b) still shows fonts that were used in the document, while they do not say embedded subset beside them - after your procedure.

(a) will not work if you read my explanation above.

What I am really getting at is, where is that command in Indesign called FLATTEN TRANSPARENCY just like in Illustrator 10. I can't find it.

In illustrator 10 I just SELECT ALL - Flatten Transparency with the meter at 100% for all vector and no raster, and convert text to outlines checked ON.

OK the name suits you, what part of Illustrator being a "vector art" program and InDesign being a "pagelayout" program did you not understand. As in the earlier versions of PageMaker when you open a document or create a new one fonts are present, wether used or not!! Style sheets that are default want certain fonts, The text tool uses these default fonts and embeds a code into the document that says "hey I want Helvetica bold, where is it" even though you set the entire document up in Times Italic and converted it to paths, the document still wants to know where helvetica is. Get Over it!!

but if this won't work then:

Whenever you print from InDesign or export to a format other than Adobe PDF 1.4 (Acrobat 5.0) or PDF 1.5 (Acrobat 6.0), InDesign performs a process called flattening. Flattening cuts apart transparent art to represent overlapping areas as discrete pieces that are either vector objects or rasterized areas. As artwork becomes more complex (mixing images, vectors, type, spot colors, overprinting, and so on), so does the flattening and its results.

Note: InDesign can place Illustrator's native and PDF 1.4 files with transparency intact and unflattened. For best results retaining transparency without flattening using PDF with InDesign, save your files as PDF 1.4 (Acrobat 5.0) or PDF 1.5 (Acrobat 6.0).

You can access and specify flattening settings through the Transparency Flattener Presets dialog box, the Advanced options in the Print dialog box, and the Flattener Preview palette. Once these settings are specified, you can save and apply them as transparency flattener presets.

InDesign flattens transparent objects according to the settings in the selected flattener preset.

OK it happens at print time!

[dogbrain2]

>Why don't you just convert text to outline before exporting your PDF from >Indesign?

>I just did a quick text and it will not show those fonts and being >embedded...

2 reasons. i tried this and it did not work, some of the fonts still showed in the list even though ALL the text turned to outlines. Secondly, I found in AI 10 that when you FLATTEN TRANSPARENCY after SELECT ALL, the PDF text output didn't look as dark as SELECT ALL - Create Outlines. In both instances in AI 10, no fonts were embedded.

>Text could be partially outlined (which is viewable on low-res prints), >moving text to higher layer or front will prevent it from being affected by >flattening.

How can you make sure that the text gets ALL flattened and not PARTIALLY. Maybe this is the problem. Parts are getting flattened while enough still exists for it to embed.

>OK the name suits you, what part of Illustrator being a "vector art" >program and InDesign being a "pagelayout" program did you not >understand

Thanks for the blurb explanation of the background of how AI and Indesign works, but unfortunately your response has nothing to do with the question I originally asked.

I know how flattening works but it is the FONT EMBEDDING that I am trying to stop. How can I simply print a PDF with the text vectorized with the end result FONTS USED IN DOCUMENT list in the PDF empty.

I've tried the recommendation of saving in the older 4.0 PDF type with font embedding off, but stuff still gets imbedded.

I even tried exporting as an EPS, with all the text to outlines, and then opening in AI 10, but some of the text was missing for some reason, and it also looked WAY TOO DARK on the screen (the text). There must be a way to do with from Indesign CS, it would be stupid if there isn't.

[dogbrain2]

God knows how I happened to have stubbled upon this.

Here is what I think the problem is.

I did a EXPORT PDF Acrobat 4.

I then opened it in Acrobat 6 Pro and clicked the ADVANCED EDITING toolbar. Clicked onthe Text tool. Started trying to highlight randomly any text on the page.

Strangely enough THE TABLES IN INDESIGN CS are what I believe, to be the source of the problem. The fonts, while were flattened, have a duplicate on top of it, ONLY WITHIN TABLES. I don't know if this is an error, but when I started deleting all the text, I have the flattened vectors below that look crisper. I then SAVE document over itself, and the fonts list is now ALMOST empty, except Adobe Garramond somewhere in the document.

I will have to snoop more tommorow to find the last font hiding. All I want is a flattened PDF with high quality EPS pictures and flattened text, NO EMBEDDING.