Indesign Create Outlines

[adf]

Is it just me or is this command completely random? It seems to behave differently if you just select the text object and click create outlines than if you highlight all the text and click it. Also the option remains available sometimes when you have already created outlines but throws up a 'select object that can be turned to outlines' message if you actually try and use it.

And then after all that the damn PDF has still got fonts in at the end despite me outlining everything I can and un-checking all the send font boxes in the PDF options. I also tried using the 'handy' technique of creating a transparency flattener preset that converts all fonts to outlines on output, which sounds nice but does absolutely nothing.

Im continually finding Adobe Indesign to be the most frustrating, badly coded and inconsistent piece of software I have ever used.

[soilworker]

Oh, adf.... it's not that bad. No, seriously... granted personal preference can play into this I suppose.... InDesign is great. But, there is a bit of a learning curve. It can just do so much that it appears to be inconsistent when all your seeing are actually different functions. Once you're really up and running in it and you understand what it's doing you'll love it.

Now, to the issue at hand. I know exactly what's happening to you here and it's easy enough to get around. I ran a bit of a test just for you. Don't you feel special?

Okay, if you've got a text box full of text and you select the actual text box, not highlight the text itself, and convert to outlines - it outlines all of the text and renders it as a group. Everything is successfully outlined. You can ungroup it and move the text around line by line (if there is more than one line). Now, you might think I'm wrong.... just keep reading.

Moving on.... if you take a text box, full of text, and select all of the text itself..... highlight all of it and then convert to outlines it does function a bit differently which you've already discovered. It outlines all of the text but doesn't render it as a group. It actually keeps it in a real text box. The difference here is that you can move each individual line of type but only a little bit up or down, it's basically still locked into the text box like normal text. The really cool part about doing it this way is that you can still type in the text box and even the outlined text will still reflow on a line by line basis. The bad part about doing it this way, if you're trying to eliminate all font usage in your pdf, is that the box is locked as text box, even if there is no editable text (all outlined).... which means that it's seen as a text object that uses a font... again, even if there is no text in the box. This is also why it gives you the message telling you that if you want to outline it you have to select an object that can be turned to outlines. You've got a text object selected which makes that option available.... there's just nothing inside that object that can be converted to outlines which is why you get the message. And, it's also why your handy dandy transparency flattener preset doesn't do it's job either.... it can't. The box is empty.

So, if I were you I'd opt for the first way of outlining your text.... just select the entire box and convert it to outlines.

Now, one more thing about this. Text boxes can be kind of funny in InDesign until you know them and here's why. There are three type of content boxes in InDesign.... text, graphic and unassigned. Graphic boxes contain graphics, of course. Text boxes contain text, obviously, but are seen as text objects themselves, requiring the use of a font. So, if you want to eliminate the need for a font, outline it as stated above.... select the entire thing so that it actually eliminates the text box when it outlines all of the text. No text box = no need for a font to support it. This leads me to my next point as well as the last type of content box (I suppose I should call them frames since that's what they are in InDesign but oh well)...... don't use text boxes as color blocks or backgrounds or whatever. Why? You guessed it.... they require a font - and if you're goal is to eliminate all need for fonts it'll screw you. Actually, it's good pratice to not do it anyways because I've seen it cause other prepress related issues as well. Any content box that is not filled with text or a graphic should be set as..... drum roll please.... unassigned. If you select an empty text box and go under the object menu and down to content you'll see all three types of content.... choose unassigned. Chances are that you've got some of these boxes hanging around (you can tell when you select it by the little boxes along the bounding box, or, if you don't have any editable text left if your document you can use the find font feature and it will show you where they pesky last few fonts are used (note, after you close out of find font, change to a selection tool immediately and the box in question will become selected). Just change the boxes content to unassigned. If you eliminate all those your PDF should be free of fonts.... that is assuming you've got no support images that use fonts as well.

Hope this helps.

~Ciao,
Hungover Soilworker

[posterized_child]

Nice explanation, soilworker. That was helpful to me as well.

[soilworker]

Glad I could help, child. Perhaps I do better work after a night of heavy drinking.

Is it nap time yet? My hair hurts. Damned vodka.... damned Russians!

[adf]

Thanks Soilworker, that does explain things better than anywhere else I've been looking for info on this function. I've actually had that problem with a coloured backing box being used as a text box before too, that one was a headache for sure.

I whiz around in photoshop and illustrator at high-speed and then as soon as things hit indesign it slows to a crawl, and not just because it seems to respond 2 seconds after I do anything. I just genuinely don't think the standard has been set very high, after all the only thing it had to compete with was the dinosaur of Quark.

I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who have enough experience with the qwerks of the app to work fluidly in it but to me as a person who works at a software company it just isn't well designed enough. The sooner someone creates some open-source thing that beats the hell out of indesign the better in my opinion.

Thankyou very much for your help though, I do appreciate you sharing the wisdom.

Adam

[kevinf]

adf, I'd agree with you completely, but I would replace indesign in your statement with illustrator! I work in photoshop and indesign at light speed, but as soon as I need to load up illy, it takes 5 times as long to load as the others, always crashes on the first load, and seems to try to obscure every function possible and fight my wishes at each turn

Having learned the trifecta (PS, Indy, Illy) I'd say that Indy is the most clear and consistant of the three, followed by Photoshop, then Illy.

Definetly different strokes for different folks

I also want to thank soil, he's increased my knowledge as well :flowers:

[pspdfppd]

I too have experienced a lot of frustration in the "create outlines" with indesign. When I have a bit of extra time i'm going to read that post about how to do it.

As far as Indesign as a prepress tool and design program...well I can't say enough good things about it. Guess I kind of took to it pretty quick because I was always very good with Illustrator before indd came along. And I was a very strong Quark supporter for a long time but that's not the case any more. I just have to tolerate quark files and mash them up to something I can finish off in InDesign.

One thing in indesign that's really pissing me off is this: When you select a whole bunch of text and want to change the line spacing vertically...you can't change the whole lot incrementally like in quark. I mean the box is greyed out meaning, I guess that there is more than one value selected. In Quark, this doesn't matter...you can hold down the option key and every line, regardless of it's point value between lines will move in 1/10 of a point increments. This is a lifesaver when trying to make copy fit.

Maybe I'm missing something because I can't believe Adobe would leave something this important out if it's program.
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