Surely there is an easy way to do bleeds?

[illfrustrator]

I work at a pckaging company in the design studio and mainly use Freehand, but we are looking to migrate to illustrator and we have a big problem.

We receive 1 up cutter files in .eps format (mainly exported from Esko Artios CAD). Obviously for the designs we need to add a 3mm bleed around the cutter in which to place our graphics. In Freehand it goes something like this:

1. Import Cutter into Cutter Layer
2. Copy to Foreground layer and delete all internal elements (cuts, creases etc).
3. Select all in foreground layer and Join (command J)
4. Select inset path and enter -3mm to give us our bleed.

Now comes the problem in illustrator.

I follow steps 1&2 without a problem (although selecting seems more frustrating than with Freehand). Then comes the problem - when I come to join all the paths I get the error "To join, you must select 2 open endpoints..."

I assume I have to join them like in Freehand as if I don't and I go to offset path I end up with a 3mm bleed round every individual path.

Have tried making them a compound path, grouping etc but with no success.

I suspect a few other people have the same problem as we sometimes receive illustrator artwork files that just have large blocks of colour behind the cutter and do not follow the shape.

As this is essential for us to do our artwork, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rickyp_uk]

Try riding round the outline on a biddy chariot

[illfrustrator]

Thanks for your input rich. You could have just shouted that across the room though

[beermonster]

too complex mate

mask the completed artwork - exact bleeds are seldom used as the job might butt up or the gutter be less than 6 mm between stations. talk to pre-press and ask em how they would prefer it - either way masking is simpler

when it comes to the step, if they are doing it in illy, they can adjust the mask to fit

simple

[illfrustrator]

Thanks for your reply but that isn't really what i mean. I'm not looking at this from a repro point of view - mearly design. I need to set up the 3mm bleed area before I start to design my artwork.

We have to have a 3mm bleed that follows the cutter, not just for artwork but also for when we print the designs out for customer mockups.

We print out the artwork then spray mount the board sample to the back of the design using a light box.

We could sometimes get round this by using blocks of colour (but not always and the extra 3mm gives us some license for movement and acts as a guide for placement). But I still can't believe that something that takes less than a minute to do in Freehand is so much of a pain in illustrator.

Once again thanks for your help, but it is the specific task of the outset path by 3mm that I need to address.

[beermonster]

nope - still makes no sense to me and I do this stuff!

just do your design under the cutter on another layer/s - and just make sure there's plenty of bleed

when you are done, maske it to about 3 mm - if all you are worried about is a little extra for cutting out and mocking up - why does it need to be EXACTLY 3mm?

to me it doesnt - if you design with enough bleed you can cut /trim wherever and all is good. making 3mm exact bleed is a little mad imo

we do cromalin mock ups in exactly this way. as long as there's SOME bleed it doesnt matter. the cad table will get good fit. we print a proof with the cutter on (for press to match and cad to get position) and one without the cutter (which gets cut up, folded etc)

maybe looking at it from a repro point of view is something you should consider? just because you dont doesnt mean you shouldnt.

3mm bleed stepped up to a 2.5mm gutter - or even with flap overlaps - oh - the 3mm suddenly needs masking......you cant "move" objects to fit - vignettes will suddenly have the gradient in the wrong place! masking - you can adjust the mask to fit butt-ups and flap overlaps - simple.

[illfrustrator]

Thanks once again for your response. However the reason why I need to do it is kind of irrelevant. I just need to be able to do it. Is it possible?

It is how we have to do our artwork internally (Artpro sort out butting up, gutters etc. if the design even gets that far) and this is how our customers request visuals. Also we only receive blank samples from our CAD department and are unable to get the graphics cut out on the Cad Table - thus the even bleed around the artwork aids positioning on the lightbox

It may not be the way that other people do it but it is how we have to do it, all I want to know is how to get an acurate bleed (whether it be 3mm, 6mm or whatever) that exactly follows the shape of the cutter.

Maybe I should re-phrase the question. Ignoring the Offset path part. How do I join the outline of the cutter once I have deleted the internal cuts and folds, without getting the join error?

It takes less than a minute to do in Freehand! Cannot believe it is not possible in illustrator without having to individually join points. (Was shown a technique by a former colleague which took 15 minutes!)

Once again thanks for taking the time to reply - much appreciated

[Annod]

Howdy, I think I understand what your trying to ask. I used to work for a label printing company & had similar issues when swapping over from freehand to Illy. As we stepped up & added bearer bars direct into ai, and concidering ai insanely aligns to the artwork outline not the mask, it was much easier if we could have an exact bleed.

How do I join the outline of the cutter once I have deleted the internal cuts and folds, without getting the join error?

You have somewhere in your path mulitple endpoints. Where in Freehand you would have just selected your path & told it to close path in the attributes window, in ai you can either select your path with the direct selection tool (the white pointer) & a blue line will "joint the dots" exept where your path isn't closed. You can then select these two individual points with the direct selection tool & hit command J to join point.

Another way is to select your path & in the pathfinder window hit the "Trim" button. This will join your endpoints but beware, it won't work if you have more than two endpoints in your path.

Play around with this pathfinder window, it was extreamly useful to me while I was working with dielines.

After you have your closed path, you should then be able to proceed to offset your path through the Object menu, then path, then offset path. Where you used negative numbers in freehand, you will have to use positive in ai.

I hope I understood what you were asking! There may be an easier way, especially if you have a complex path to deal with, but I haven't found it yet!

Cheers!

[beermonster]

well the simplest and quickest way is to get the cad dept to add a solid line 3mm outside the artwork shape then. not ideal perhaps, but if you make it standard practise it'll become simple. this would work a dream as you can create as much bleed as you like, then when you are done simply use the new line and mask the artwork exactly

to create one path after deleting cuts etc you can group it (ok - not one path exactly) or make a compound path - just select the paths and path>compound path>make - or <Apple key> + 8

alternatively - use the offset path option - but it's not ideal as it creates an outline outside you original profile AND inside as well

or

do it in freehand and get it back into illustrator........

we'll get you an answer or my names not drunken bastid :lol:

[beermonster]

oh - forgot to add....if you have what look like lots of individual elements or end points, they could in fact just be dashed lines.

you can select all by selecting one and select similar stroke, then uncheck dashed lines in the stroke pallette