Seperations

[Agent_Orange]

I have two questions I hope someone can help me with today.

We run a 2 color GTO and a Xerox DC12 with Harlequin and Fiery x12e RIPs. When I put out plates for the GTO, I print a sample with marks on the dc12 for the pressman. I'd like to print 2 color seperations at a time when we do 4 color jobs. For example, if he's putting down C&K on the first pass, I'd like to print just C&K from the DC12 for his reference so he knows if he's putting down too much or too little ink. Haven't had any problems yet (he's been running Heidelbergs for 20 years) but I'd hate to pull the first sheet on the second pass and realize we're screwed. I know how to print individual seps on the dc 12 but that's black and white and not much help.

The other question is kind of a poll. I'm using CS2 (only for a few more weeks) and I use InDesign's built-in trapping. Is there any advantages to InDesign sending seperations to the RIP as opposed to the In-RIP seps option? What does everyone else do? I just let the RIP handle the seps but I'm curious to know when and why you would use the two options.

[seetomtype]

Sending print jobs with In-Rip trapping is telling InDesign that you are going to send a
composite file to your rip and apply the traps there. If you need to have InDesign do
your trapping before the job gets to the rip you don't want to use that setting because
the job won't have traps applied to it.
Not so sure about the other question. You could set up custom curves
on the Fiery to eliminate 2 of the 4 process colors from your output. So using your
example you'd have a set of curves that didn't output the M & Y info, then visa
versa. That way you'd just have to rip one comp, apply curves, output sample, repeat for
the other two colors using the second set of curves.

[born2print]

ahh

[zimmy]

On the RIP in front of the DC12,did you look for an option to recombine seperations?
We had 1(recombine) with an Imation RIP.
Now we have a Fiery and it will not recombine seps because we did not
buy the better upgrade.
You might have the better upgraded one to recombine.
Check with your vendor.

[Agent_Orange]

Sorry Born 2 Print, I should have phrased my questions better, but it looks like you figured it out

Not so sure about the other question. You could set up custom curves
on the Fiery to eliminate 2 of the 4 process colors from your output.

I didn't have time to try the curves in the Fiery but I like that idea. I'll try tomorrow and let you know...

Sending print jobs with In-Rip trapping is telling InDesign that you are going to send a
composite file to your rip and apply the traps there. If you need to have InDesign do
your trapping before the job gets to the rip you don't want to use that setting because
the job won't have traps applied to it.

As for the trapping, again, i don't think I phrased my question right. When you print from indesign, in the output section you have choices of "composite CMYK", "composite RGB", "seperations", "in-rip seperations", etc. If I use indesign's built in trapping, I can select "seperations" or "in-rip seps". I ususally elect to let the rip make them but i wonder what the pros and cons are of having indesign send the seps with trapping applied vs the rip making the seps with indesign trapping applied.

I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking it. Am I making sense or totally missing?

Oh, and I don't have the upgrade in the Fiery...

[beermonster]

the rip will apply traps universally which you can view easily enough - works well for those that use it - you may have to apply settings in the rip to get spreads/traps how you want them, but if it's set up ok you can have a pretty good set up. your rip vendor should be able to help you with that.

if you use indesigns' trap the same will happen - assign a preset and you're away - again - i've not seen much negative feedback on this at all - seems to work pretty good.

then again - if you trap the job manually (overprinting strokes etc) you can control traps on an element by element basis - some smaller elements might not need that "0.2" spread but a minimal spread - its a judgement call. if you do it manually you can send host based seps (with indesign's in built trapping turned to off) and the job is trapped.

we trap manually mostly - its a job by job basis - no big deal. then again we are packaging here and trapping is possibly more important than a universal "one size spreads all" (ohh heck - thats sounds bad!). we can get occasions where artwork on the back edge needs a bigger spread than artwork on the grip edge - so the ability to trap elements manually on an object by object basis is important to us.

we've set up trap presets in indesign, and certain jobs lend themselves to just using default traps - some using custom traps. we find the feature especially handy on pdf only jobs - when its stepped in in design and a trap preset applied - off we go - it works a dream for us.

the only downside i've found is the indesign trapping slows ripping a little - not too much though and we live with it.

i guess summing up in one word would be "control". trap presets or manual traps may give a better result than in-rip - or maybe not depending on what control you need and what works best for you

hope this helps in some small way.

[Agent_Orange]

Yeah... the curves in the Fiery was primo. Now I have a profile for each way we run the first pass (usually C&K or Y&K). Thanks for the tip, seetomtype.

[seetomtype]

Glad you got it sorted out 8)

[Sonic_Nerdish]

I've observed that trapped Indesign files don't reproduce well on a Xerox Doc 12 or a Konica Minolta Bizhub. I would guess this is a problem with similar machines as well.

Also, when I trap files in InDesign I use the In-Rip Separations setting and choose Application Built In. I never have a problem with trapping this way.


A note about trapping in InDesign
If you have Illustrator eps files placed in InDesign, they will not trap. You must use native Illustrator files as links if you want them to trap.

[beermonster]

you could copy paste between illy and indy - traps applied in illy will be preserved when pasting into indy and all is well - and no links to worry about