Dot Gain on Sheet standard

[LoganBlade]

What standards do you use for Dot gain

I am using the following

K - 18%
Y - 16%
M - 14%
C - 12%

Looking to get everyone out there and average them up. My boss is looking for a industry standard. I picked these numbers form the Graycol standards fro dot gain and took the cleaner lower numbers for gain.

thansk for all feedback

[overprintboy]

gosh, there are standards?

Must be nice.

Ours is whatever the cheap blanket material the print manager bought because the salesman took him to lunch is absorbing the crappy ink he bought because the ink salesman bought him a sandwich.

Throw in the pressman and paper factor and you can pretty much write a math thesis on dot gain in our shop.

[LoganBlade]

So what is it the I am getting no responces to this thread. Is it that no person knows what dot gain there pressman are running? PLease give me some feedback good or bad. even a "I dont know what your asking"

thanks

[ihateprepress]

I know what you are asking, but can offer no assistance.

Our shop cares not for dot gain, as we hack n' slash. I don't think the pressmen ever stray from the IVS settings. Lazy bastards. I bet dot gain becomes soley a prepress responsibilty. "I just printed to the IVS files settings. Why did prepress set the ducts so heavy?" bah.

[detric_1]

Well, I'd have to say there are a few missing holes in your question. First of all, are you talking about sheetfed or web? Second, with those gains I'd have to assume you're talking about a nice #1 or #2 coated sheet; not always a fair comparison. I'm not sure if everyone else is seeing it, but we've been getting alot of requests for dull/silk/matte sheets. You could see a good 2 or 3 point bump on that alone.

Also, with gracol, it's more about the grey balance than the TVI.

Finally, I'd say they are agressive sheetfed Gracol numbers. We've done some of the test prints for them and didn't experience that sharp of printing. In my opinion, if your a good to better commercial shop, you should be in the 16-20% range

Gracol is the closest you're gonna get to an "industry standard" in this conversation, and they're still trying to hammer it all out. And they're trying to take dot gain out of the list of variables.

Dave

[GTrev]

Originally Posted by ihateprepress

I know what you are asking, but can offer no assistance.

Our shop cares not for dot gain, as we hack n' slash.

As a relatively small operation with 2 full time prepress staff & 1 casual I'm just worried about keeping dot's linear without getting to worried about dot gain - I'd like to be able to be on top of this but the real world & life gets in the way - on a day to day basis I'm happy to give the guys on the press a lower line screen ruling if I know they are going to have trouble keeping things open on the press!

Let's be honest here - I've got a maintenance cycle on my ctp plate processer that should be done every 4 weeks - shit - 6 weeks later they've done the major clean - meanwhile I'm dealing with a designer who thinks he can see a difference between his soft proof pdf file on screen & the press check that he's currently just turned up to look at whil'st scratching his or her collective nuts!

Oh no! I've got me head in the shrinkwapper again!

[LoganBlade]

So you all know what I did. It is an inhouse printshop.
WE generally run same stock.
A Garda dull
and an Acent opaque

I have calibrated my curves to each paper so that they print the same dot gain. I am going for a similiar look on eaach stock. I am hoping for confirmation that other shops are doing the same.

I will be seeing stuff next week when the operator returns from vacation and I hope I get some work in to the shop


thanks to all responseces as of yet hoping for more

[ChilBear]

Can you let us know what the goal of this project is?

I have never seen dot gain by color nor should you (IMHO) adjust your curves for different paper. Prepress's objective is to get a consistent dot on the PLATE and the press operator's job is to not smash is too much when printing.

With CTP we see about 10 % press gain down from 20% when we used film. Paper choices affect this number. We have used Garda Silk and it printed wonderfully and offset, well it HAS to gain more.

If I was to guess, ASSume 12% for Matt coated and 20% for offset. If you press operator is out more than this, THEY have the problem not prepress. If the press/operator is out of whack, fix that problem but do not adjust the curves.

Unless your Boss is the operator... then look for another job because he can't print and is looking for a scape goat.

[LoganBlade]

I guess maybe I am the problem. I am the man making decisions.

Background for me

22 years in this inhouse from the days of paste boards and films to now with our ctp. I have printed before and understand the pressman duties and work in prepress and uunderstand duties here.

My goal is to have a presman run his inks to a strong density that helps his work but staying consistant and minimizes hickeys. When ink is run light it has a tendency to get over run by water and causes problems. My goal to get presman running at expected ink density for typical 4c printing we do. Again this is an inhouse and we get the same work in differnet forms all the time.

I have taken the numbers from the graycol as expected dot gain and put a number to each color and my goal is to have pressman run inks to density and have the same dotgain on coated and uncoated to get the same visual appearence.

I have silly marketing people that want a coated job to look like an uncaoatd so I am making what I hope to be a solution. Telling me I am wrong my be what I need to here and I wish I didnt have to wait to see if what I have done is good or bad.

In my head i see this as a good thing. It was very easy to do with my Delta workflow.

What I did

1. I made an uncalibrated plate and linerized my plate out put.
10=10 - 20=20 -----90=90 - 100=100

2. I then entered my expected process curves to equal expected dot gain

3. I output plates with my process curve applied and had pressman run plates and read dot gain at 50% fit on a coated sheet adn then on an uncaoted.

4. I then took this dot gain number and subtrated my expected gain for each color.

5. I took this new number and added it to 50% and put this new number as my measured reading. This measured reading pulls teh sreen back down to my expected datgain number.

6. Did a test job and found my new plates to be crisper cleaner printg and matching my proof better. This was the only test to date and I have posted this to here to get feedback from PPF to confirm and disafirm my process.

I do understand different paper has different dotgain but because of the limited paper i use I can calibrate to the 2 that I use and hope for the best. My goal it to print leaner crisper and more consistant than the outside vender that print a 75% screen muddy becase he is going for color not clean printing. My goal is to get clean and color to number. Maybe not up that high but I think I can do better using both my printing experience and the prepress experience I have.

Most importantly hearing from all here good or bad. Hope this explains me more and what my goal is fro my shop. and I thank all for your input.

[LoganBlade]

Come on guys i need answers. am I on the right track?.. or in my own fantasy world help me. If you don't know ask your press guy for me

thanks