Heidelberg Suprasetter 52: Pros and Cons?

[Fatboysmart]

Originally Posted by prepress_vee

I'd rather that gum go free, than the emulsion/coating from the plate run through the press. We gum, save and re-run all the time. It's not a new variable IMO.

I'm not saying it's wrong - many shops are doing it. But I wouldn't.

That's fair. But what i'm trying to say that I have never heard anyone complaining about using their press to remove gum (which isn't as harmless as many people think). Same with alcohol (very agressive). BTW. We print alcohol-free.

And although we have been using these plates for only 2 months, we have not had any problems with the plates polluting the press... Most of the debris from the plates is removed on the paper anyway (on the first 20 prints or so).

[prepress_vee]

OK
Cheers.

[MarkTonk]

Fatboysmart,

Thanks for the answers! As you state, the maintenance is very little and user friendly. We have been printing alcohol free here for years and I am glad to see you are too. I think eventually this will become the norm

Adexec,

.We add a debris removal system to vacuum any emulsion debris while imaging. Some plates require it and some do not. Hey, even some chemistry plates will require it.

There are many different plate technologies and they all work but have different attributes. I will explain why Heidelberg USA has chosen a Chemfree plate over processless. The Chemfree has an offline clean out unit that also gums the plate. Gumming protects the plate from oxidation and this is no different then what you do with 99% of plates. By doing so, it also adds contrast to the plate so that it may be viewed as a quality control step before hanging on press. You know, a logo lost hi res or there is a hot spot on plate or typo on text. Processless has a very low contrast so offline QC is difficult. With the chemfree contrast, you can read the plates with a plate reader. I heard special plates readers were coming out to read processless plates but I have not seen them.With Chemfree, the emulsion is also cleaned off in the clean out unit. With processless, it is clean off on press. The emulsion comes off on the first sheets but what if you do not use full size sheets all of the time, where does the emulsion go? Your dampening system will require cleaning sooner. The chemfree plate is also daylight safe so you handle them as you would any conventional plate, you do not have to be concerned with white light. With processless, you do need to take heed because if it is left out too long, it will require a longer dampening cycle to clean it.


These are the reasons why we choose Chemfree over processless. Both technologies work but have different attributes and rules that must be followed. Fatboysmart is following his and he is happy with his results. That being said, there are over 40 plates certified on the Suprasetter and each has it own pros and cons, but they all do work within their boundaries, be it chemistry, chemfree or processless.

Regards,

Mark

[Fatboysmart]

Originally Posted by MarkTonk

Fatboysmart,

Thanks for the answers! As you state, the maintenance is very little and user friendly. We have been printing alcohol free here for years and I am glad to see you are too. I think eventually this will become the norm

Well, we have been printing alcohol free for around 7 years now, but alcohol is still the norm here in Europe. As far as I know there are just a handful of printers in Holland that print alcohol free on the 52 size (I guess that's 20 inch in the US?).

Processless has a very low contrast so offline QC is difficult.

The contrast is indeed lower than conventional plates, but good enough to identify you have the right plate. In my experience printers rarely check on the plate itself for errors (thats what proofs are for), and they notice an error once they start printing.

Your dampening system will require cleaning sooner.

True, but printing alcohol free requires replacing the water more frequently anyway, so that's not an issue for us.

Thanks for your input Mark!

[MarkTonk]

Originally Posted by Fatboysmart

Well, we have been printing alcohol free for around 7 years now, but alcohol is still the norm here in Europe. As far as I know there are just a handful of printers in Holland that print alcohol free on the 52 size (I guess that's 20 inch in the US?).

Yes, that is correct, 20 inch. I would venture to guess that you are quite progressive with alcohol free for the last 7 years not just in Holland but in Europe in general. I do hear of much more interest there though.

As for checking the plate, that varies here but I can say when I was in production, I had found quite a few mistakes by doing so but if I had my way, there would never be a mistake to be concerned about. You know us prepress guys, we are usually perfect. At least we think so.

Take good care and thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Mark

[eastppress]

Although we are not using process-less plates (we use Fuji plates through their new Z processor), we have been using the Suprasetter with cassette loading. It was installed and started running in mid-June. Installation support was excellent. The machine runs at 1 plate per 2 minutes with no slow-down for plate size changes or plate cassette reloading. The ability to load 400 plates of mixed sizes (4 trays of 100), auto slipsheet removal into a flat tray, alerts for low plates/paper tray full/filter changes, etc makes the unit highly efficient as we produce 200 to 400+ plates per day from this one machine. We send one-bit tiff's from our Rampage system into the Tiff toolbox then through the metashooter. No problems here as the flow keeps up with plate imaging. Due to the large volume of plates, we are cleaning the pickup roller every day and maybe every shift. Phone support coordination wasn't great until we worked out an effective response system (we have 10 presses that must be kept fed 24/7 -much is JIT, so our demand is extreme.) Support has gotten better and meets our needs. Most of the initial support needs came from break-in glitches and a couple of manufacturing defects now fixed. Heidelberg's commitment has been excellent. Due to our significant volume, I wish it were faster as I have heard others are, but it's faster than what we had previously. Our employees have come to appreciate its benefits of speed, ease of use, infrequent loading, etc. We are anticipating installing a second unit to take on the other 200-400 plates per day we are imaging on other units. I'd like to convince senior management for a 3rd unit for true JIT production. It interfaces with our newer Heidelberg presses for ink setting/etc.

[MarkTonk]

Hi eastppress,

Thank you for your post. How many plates sizes are you running? Sounds like you are running with the presses at 24/7 with allot of JIT. This equates to 1,400 to 2,800+ plates per week. Is this a correct assumption?

Another Suprasetter H105 MCL (Multiple Cassette Loader) user just passed the 100,000 plate output a couple of months ago....at the rate your are going, it will not take you long to surpass that!

Thanks again for the comments.

Regards,

Mark