Xrite Profilemaker for digital printing

[jdat]

my company might be looking into buying profilemaker ( about time! ) and I need to clarify a few things.


We are an all digital large format printing company running:
-vinyl+paper:Hp Designjet 9000s ( CMYK + lc lm )
-banner Scitex Xljet CMYK + lc lm ly lk )
-various foamcore+dibond+banner Zund 250 ( CMYK + lc lm ).

everything runs with onyx postershop ( various versions between machines but not the most recent version ).

Considering our colour output we need to get more than just a CMYK profiling solution right?
If we were to get the basic Cmyk solution we wouldn't be able to get optimal profiling?

I am discussing this with the production manager who thinks either Profilemaker photostudio(??? ) or Publish pro will do but all of these are CMYK only options and I don't agree with him.

Would Publish Plus which offers CMYK + 6 channels profiling possibilites be our best option considering our overall setup?


I am also getting confused about were Monaco Profiler comes into play?! Would like to avoid bringing that up because of costs involved.


fyi: we already have an Eye-One that we use for linearization... also me and the rest of the team have tons more to learn about this because I don't know jack about profile making to be honest. Need to read up!

[Nicolas]

Hi jdat
well, as far as I know postershop does not adress the individual color channels of the printers through multicolor ICC profiles (i.e. light Magenta and all the other channels). So there might be no benefit for your purposes.
What you can do is to optimize/normalize the cmyk colours before the data is sent to the printer through postershop to the output device. Due this you can expect nearly similar colour results from all your devices (of course it depends on the available colourspaces). Such things can be done by using the GMG ColorServer, wich does a color transformation on PDF files (or images) before they are going to postershop. It contains also a profile editor to create the conversion/optimization profiles. GMG ColorServer can also reduce the TAC for the different devices and medias to make use uf the largest available gamut of the printers without any overinking issues.

[jdat]

I will need to read up on the solution you are suggesting.


Could you give me a ballpark idea of costs for the software?

If this can all be done in pre-press on one computer we would need to factor in the fact that it would be on a mac. ( if that's of an important or issue )

With this software can I do icc profiling for the various substrates without too much hassles? ( using an eye-one )

[Nicolas]

Basically GMG is using it's own kind of high quality device-link profiles - those can be created by the GMG profile editor (which comes with the software). The application is running under windows, which should not be a big issue since it will be a "work-horse" just processing the files automatically through hotfolders. Unluckily I do not have any price idea, but GMG france should be able to give you more detailed information. (You can PM me your contact details, if you'd like to know more in detail)

[stargate]

GMG ColorServer is add-on to ColorProof and it may seem expensive at the beginning but if you use it to automate your workflow it will save lot's of money in the long run. Imagine no WASTING TIME to open change mode, save as... in Photoshop ever again.

You can also convert from all kinds of RGB to RGB with different rendering intents or from RBG to CMYK etc.

Derek

[jdat]

sorry for all the stupid questions ...

running color server I can build customs profiles regardless of rip and device?

All profiling output needs are handled by color server exclusively and all the rips run profile free as that is taken care of upstream?


Also ... how does the profiling process work?
1-Run your various colour spec gamuts, linearization etc on the various rips, medias(paper, vinyl etc ) on the various devices,
2-read through with specto and color proof to build a conversion profile specifically for that device and media

once that's done you have a profile usable for instant conversion with color server where one could use profiles for:
machine A media x
machine A media y

etc etc
profiling conversions are handled for you and then you rip that and print?!

[stargate]

ColorServer profiles must be used only in gmg system.

Yes pretty much you can build conversion profiles for any device including presses. Assume that you want to be Gracol certified.. the normal way is to make Gracol curves for the press but this is expensive and time consuming (2-4 days) or you can print as you normally print on the press, measure this and build a Gracol profile in GMG. This way you can print Gracol without actually doing the Gracol process. etc.

You would use one HotFolder for device/paper/target combo.


Basically, you would send/print/copy your files to the right hotfolder and gmg would do the conversion to something else. You would use those converted files to output to different devices. Everything is automated.

Also ... how does the profiling process work?
1-Run your various colour spec gamuts, linearization etc on the various rips, medias(paper, vinyl etc ) on the various devices,
2-read through with specto and color proof to build a conversion profile specifically for that device and media

You got this right. First make sure your device is as good/stable/linearized/calibrated as possible because this would be your "from" color and "to" would be whatever you measure or import.

In US ColorServer is less than 10K and the cheapest ColorProof (2up) is about 2,5 K

[Nicolas]

Originally Posted by stargate

GMG ColorServer is add-on to ColorProof

<snip>

Derek

Derek, nearly correct But there is also a colorserver pro standalone version

[jdat]

not to put in doubt your expertise or knowledge it's hard to take what you are saying and recommending as preferrable because of your direct links to the company :wink:

can you give me independent comparisions of the various profiling systems on the market? icc/profilemaker versus gmg 4D etc

I'm not that knowledgable to fully comprehend the implications of running icc profiling to begin with so bringing in gmg with a whole other technical specs confuses me. It makes it hard for spot the sales speech and the cold hard facts


now unto the profiling question.
With Gmg color proof ( or is it server? ), once the patches are printed dried ( 48 hours right? ) if I am running an Eye One io how long does it go to complete the profiling process?

Do I have to reprint certain things again during the profiling process to make further adjustements ? I think that's usually a big no no.

If we get a real tight workflow I'm sure we could reprofile from scratch on a regular basis to take into account environnement changes and the likes if that seems logical or if that's the way to proceed.



Printing gamuts isn't that big of an issue. On all our machines we can easilly load the media and print under 30 minutes ( fyi no DTP! ) strictly inkjet.


Also can any of you give me links for information about the various standardized requirement organizations that would be reasonnable to try and attain for the technology and market we are in and use.
Gracol is aimed to litho so that's not for us obviously.
What about euro iso and various Eci type programs and initiatives?

[ICC_Color_Management]

For ICC profiling, you should also take a look at PerfX CM Repro™ at tglc.com
Never tweak or iterate after the first profile!

Originally Posted by jdat

not to put in doubt your expertise or knowledge it's hard to take what you are saying and recommending as preferrable because of your direct links to the company :wink:

can you give me independent comparisions of the various profiling systems on the market? icc/profilemaker versus gmg 4D etc