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exitnow · #1 (**permalink**) 04-16-2007, 03:15 PM

We have been on Apogee3 for a few years, now we are looking to upgrade. Possibilities include, Kodak/Printergy, FUJI/Rampage or upgrading to ApogeeX,

I have concerns with AGFA. We have always had issues with our proofs not matching the Ripped file, IE: transparency, hi-res raster drop shadows issues, DCS2, rgb problems, etc… along with this whole CalGraph issue I won’t even get into.

AGFA assured us that a RENDERED PDF is as good as a Ripped file. Is this true? How stable is a rendered PDF?

Also, we have 2 PDF rips and 2 proofer rips, many days we bring this thing to its knees. Will 3 Render’s be enough?

Dose anyone have a similar system who may have suggestions?

jimking · #2 (**permalink**) 04-16-2007, 03:18 PM

Apogee3 and ApogeeX are like night and day. X is very nice and much different then 3.

exitnow · #3 (**permalink**) 04-17-2007, 11:05 AM

How stable is a RENDERED pdf?

born2print · #4 (**permalink**) 04-17-2007, 11:14 AM

Kodak Prinergy is a PDF workflow too, FYI

And I dare say that all of the workflows have "issues" with things such as DCS files, transparancy, etc...

exitnow · #5 (**permalink**) 04-17-2007, 11:31 AM

With Apogee3, we are cluttered with work-arounds, does some of that go away with X.

Is Printergy known for a lot of work-around’s?

hopkinsprinting · #6 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007, 12:57 PM

exitnow,

We used Apogee Series 3 for several years before upgrading to ApogeeX last summer. I wouldn't go back to Series 3 for anything.

First, since you have 2 PDF Rip's and 2 Proofer Rip's, you will get a total of 4 renderers with your upgrade, not 3 (unless Agfa has changed their upgrade strategies). The cool thing about this is that if all renderers are comparably licensed (meaning they all have in-render trapping), your renderers can render PrintDrive OR Sherpa jobs - THEY ARE NO LONGER DEDICATED TO A SPECIFIC FUNCTION! What's even better is that all 4 renderers can work on the same job at the same time getting the job through 4 times as fast!

As for speed, the speed enhancements with ApogeeX (and the hardware they put it on) are astounding. Just to give you an example, during our transition period from S3 to X, we had a 24-page job that brought our S3 system to a crawl. ApogeeX had finished the job while our S3 system was still chewing on page 3!!! How's that for speed????

In terms of stability, the concept behind rendering and such is still the same. It imposes, traps, and renders to PrintDrive or proof on the fly like S3 did. The latest ApogeeX version (currently 3.5 service pack 1) has the latest CPSI from Adobe (as well as the latest trapping engine, Pitstop library and other technologies incorporated into the system) so the renderer is only as good as Adobe made it...and of course, postscript is still not a bullet-proof language ;-)

Now for the best part. The flattener! ApogeeX comes with a built-in flattener (which I believe you inherit from your series 3 system as part of the upgrade). The flattener is a total gem!!! I kid you not! I've thrown all kinds of transparent effects within a PDF at this thing and it flattens beautifully KEEPING ALL SPOT COLORS INTACT while also incorporating overprints where necessary!!!!

DSC images can still be problematic at times but I've also had times when they worked flawlessly! The other cool thing is you no longer need to have a regular Normalizer channel and a "Seps To Comp" channel. The seps to comp functionality is always on and if Normalizer detects pre-separated data, it composites it on the fly!

If that's not enough, how about the fact that 90% of all things ApogeeX are done in ONE application - the ApogeeX client. This is the program you use to process jobs. It's the same program that you setup your plating curves, import action lists to use in preflight, import ICC profiles for proofing, build production plans, make hot tickets, configure all your settings, etc. The only programs that are still separate from the client are ColorTuneX for building ICC profiles and the QMS-X software for doing proof to proof, proof to reference strips, etc.

As born2print said, every workflow has issues and although ApogeeX does have some, when I compare it to Series 3...it really is the difference of night and day and as I said earlier, I wouldn't go back to S3 for nothing!

One more thing, ApogeeX 4.0 is due out later this year and it will incorporate Adobe's new PDF Print Engine...goodbye postcript which equates to native handling of transparency effects (no flattening required)!

I hope you find my comments helpful.

Cheers,
Jon Morgan
Hopkins Printing

JHBUSH1973 · #7 (**permalink**) 05-30-2007, 07:19 AM

I've used other workflows and from I can see AX isn't the best and not the worst. Overall it's easy to work with especially with 3.5. JUst make sure you get the install done right. If you have a AGFA workflow now AX is the next logical step, but really in the end it's just another PDF workflow just like the others. Like previous posters mentioned 4.0 looks to be even better.

Tunder_Lala · #8 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 10:15 AM

If You have Apogee series 3 system, You will get Apogee X very cheep. With 3 or 4 renderer licenses, ohh, my dream.

pspdfppd · #9 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 12:36 PM

We've used Apogee 3 and now Apogee X and seemed to have a lot of problems in the beginning with X. But for about the last 2 years, everything's been pretty stable and reliable. Maybe that has something to do with using InDesign more and more for output.

I remember having some pretty horrendous workarounds with Apogee 3......the greatest thing, to me, is how well Apogee X handles spot colors and pdf's. We don't use the flattener...all that is done at the desktop level although we had it installed about a year ago, it has not been incorporated into any of our hot tickets.

Maybe that's something I should look into.

As of today, at least, I am really happy with Apogee X and we're getting reliable, quality output day after day.