AGFA PDF RIP vs. INposition 2.5.4 bugs - Need Help!!

[matmac]

I'm running an AGFA Palladio CTP device hanging off PrintDrive (v2). The bulk of my imposing is done through INposition 2.5.4 (Quark 4.1 / MacOS 9.2.2) But there are some serious "compatibility" issues between the AGFA INrip Trapping & CTiff and DK&As INposition xtensions in Quark.

Issue 1. INposition will NOT run with the CTiff xtension loaded. AGFAs CTiff xtension retains Colourized Tiff information in Quark when printing. (Ie. Greyscale images in Quark coloured as Pantone 072, will actually print as 072 not convert to Process). If CTiff is loaded with INposition xtensions Quark crashes on startup with an Error type 2.

Result no spot colour support for colourized tiffs through INposition. This usually means either mapping colours at PrintDrive or converting documents or linked images to a process 2nd colour prior to imposing.

Issue 2. INposition will NOT allow multiple source files with the IRT xtension loaded. INposition allows for multiple files to be accessed to form a run list of pages for imposing. If the AGFA IRT (InRip Trapping) xtension is loaded, INposition will allow any number of source files to be used to create an impostion but will always generate a "rangecheck" postscript error on the PDF RIP when printing the file.

Result either a. multiple files are used for imposing and IRT is ignored (OK for mono work) or all source files for an imposition are combined into one file. (Fine if one document is supplied, a little more tricky when a client supplys there 128 page doc in 8 page files).

Issue 3. EPS spot colour not retained when printing composite from INposition. Native Quark spots usually work OK, but imported illustrator EPS files with spot colours will rarely separate correctly. Printing as seps works, but AGFAs IRT relies on composite input.

Result print as seps, retain spot colours but NO IRT. Print as Comp, job converts to CMYK but traps. (Nb. Printing as seps from INposition will actually honour Quark trapping, but this only applies to Quark objects).

Speaking to an AGFA tech rep, I'm told that there are known compatibility issues between AGFAs xtensions and INposition. The rep indicated that certain combinations of xtensions should allow for both, but I have tried serveral combinations, including stripping out all the 3rd party xtension execept for AGFA & INposition with no luck.

Is anyone running (or previously run) a similar setup and can let me know what is required for the 2 to work in harmony? or Perhaps even just confirm that it just doesn't work

Feedback appreciated.
Nb. I not running Apogee Pilot.

[ajr]

The best thing to do would be to bin Imposition and use preps instead, or upgrade to OSX and quark 6. With the latest version of Quark you can make composite postscript files and retain the spot colors, on colorised tiffs etc. Both of these options are very expensive but you might be able to pickup a second hand version of preps for OS9 if you hunt around.
Best options I could think of. Sorry.

[matmac]

Already upgraded to MacOS X (& Quark 6 - out of client demand). PREPs has be costed and is the next step. Question. Is there a plugin (or xtension) for PREPs to control IRT parameters? (I'm guessing not). AGFA has supplied these for Quarkxpress & Acrobat - not sure what happens with PREPs. As their workflow now revolves around Apogee Pilot, I doubt that any plugins are being developed to work outside of this. The answer being upgrade to Apogee X.

[ajr]

There is no IRT plugin for preps, trapping is controlled on the quark doc before you save to a ps file or a pdf if you are in acrobat. Preps just imposes the file with the trapping parameters already on it.

[Eyetech]

Oh how I laughed reading this post - I do have sympathy tho'.

Look, we just installed AGFA Palldio with InRender trapping, we resisited the salesmans' lies and didn't go for Preps. Instead we retained our existing package (ALAP's Imposer Pro a tenth of the price!!) and apart from a couple of positional issues we are well satisfied. Now our solution will not suit every print shop but we can handle everything from 2 up, 3 and 4 pages across the sheet, 4 up, 8up multi section work and it is very quick and easy for thickos like us to use. (My first imposed job was 96pp, imposed and ready to go in 2 mins!)

Try the free fully functioning 15 day demo at www.alap.com and no I don't get commission (altho' I did offer to have their babies if they produced an 8pp version for Mac)

[matmac]

Hi Ajr,

Both of these options are very expensive but you might be able to pickup a second hand version of preps for OS9 if you hunt around

It's a good suggestion - I wound up purchasing a another copy of INposition off Ebay (~$100) - the dongle for INposition can be used to qualify for a competitive upgrade to Preps saving thousands.

There is no IRT plugin for preps, trapping is controlled on the quark doc before you save to a ps file or a pdf if you are in acrobat.

Correct, this I have tested running an Eval of Preps. Quark works fine, although I need to print to ps to retain the IRT data, the PXT doesn't work (or I haven't yet managed to get working). So Quark is no problem.

Acrobat is another story. There is an IRT plugin for Acrobat 4 & 5, but nothing for 6 (MacOS X native). There are ways around this, but an IRT plugin for Acro 6 would be alot easier.

Hi Eyetech,

Oh how I laughed reading this post - I do have sympathy tho'.

The post was centered around the idea that maybe I was just doing something fundamentally wrong. Given that no-one has replied "You just need to .. or download ..." I'll take it that this is where the product is at, warts and all.

The thing is that I can get the right result for any file, it's the workflow that just gets messed-up. (There are work-arounds for anything). I haven't looked at Imposer Pro for the same reason that I want to move away from INposition, to remove the "incompatibilities" between the AGFA and impostion extensions.

I have quite cracked all of the issues with Preps YET. But it has gone a long way to address some of the basic flaws that were occuring in my existing Quark Imposition setup.

[Eyetech]

OK howsabout making PDFs then using QuiteImposings Acrobat extension?

IRT should be taken care of within ApogeeX.

[matmac]

Yes, this works (making a pdf and imposing in Quite Imposing). I have used this method frequently. The colour separation of INposition colour bars works correctly when printed as a pdf from Acrobat.

There are a couple of things that I don't like about Quite Imposing:
1. Limited control of marks. (No standard rego, sluglines, etc.)
Great for basic, or single colour impo's. Bad for complex impo's that require more marks.

2. Quite regenerates existing hires pdf data to another (imposed) hires pdf file. There is no reference (or OPI, or FPO's). If the source doc is 100MB of single pages, the imposed file will be 100MB+. This doubles that amount of HD space required for any given job.

3. Imposition layout settings aren't dynamic. It's not possible to change a double cut from 20mm to 30mm without regenerating the entire imposition.

The version of Quite I'm using is old (v1.2??). Maybe more recent releases have addressed these issues.

Currently running a PREPS v5 eval, which is working well. Configured Quark (via Xtension) and InDesign CS (via Print Settings) to specify IRT trapping for the AGFA RIP. Just need to sort out Acrobat, but I'm sure it can be done even though AGFA don't have an IRT plugin for Mac v6.

Ps. Not running Apogee X. Running AGFA PDF RIP Series 2, v2.

[AstroBobbit]

matmac,

Agfa are moving away from Preps since it's now owned by Creo. I suppose they don't want to line the pockets of a competitor. Anyway, do you know that DK&A no longer own INposition? It's now owned by Dyngram. Perhaps there's a nice upgrade path that way too? You can get DynaStrip, which comes recommended by Agfa (or it does here in the UK anyway). I've been using it with my Apogee X, no problems.

[matmac]

AGFA organised a trial of DynaStrip which worked well. For Apogee X they stipulate Imposition software that is capable of producing PJTF data.

I have purchased PREPS v5 based on eval and the level of support. (Product forums, technotes and large user base). I only know one company here using Dynastrip, and I have used PREPS v4 previously.

AGFA appears to have tighter integration with PREPS given that they offer a "template manager" for PREPS and not for Dynastrip. (Maybe Dynastrip doesn't require it).

What is your take on Apogee X vs. Apogee Pilot? Faster? Better?