Using PDF as an internal file format

[detric_1]

I've got an interesting question that I would LOVE to hear what you guys all think. We've been talking about making PDF files the basis of our internal production where I work. In other words, a job would come into production/preflight, a PDF file would be made, and that would progress into our EPP department for ripping/proofing/plating.

Now, I know this is a VERY general and simplistic statement, but I'd kinda like to start a little discussion about the not so obvious pitfalls, is anyone doing anything like this, and what issues have you had.

The biggest issue I have is going to be color management and color corex. We are heavily into using color management and we are a high-end commercial printer. I'm still trying to come up with an effective solution for these.

Thanks in advance!

Dave

[preppy]

This is similar to how I work currently. I imposition everything manually and like the fact that I can trust the pdf after the proof is out. It works well for me now. We are going CTP soon and will have imposition software (Preps although I really like DynaStrip).

I try to send PDFx files to all my outside vendors.

[David]

Originally Posted by detric_1

We are heavily into using color management and we are a high-end commercial printer.
Thanks in advance!

Dave

What are you using for your color management?
Acrobat CM or stand-alone app?

David

[seetomtype]

We don't do a lot of 4 color printing here, but that is the workflow that I use.
Everything gets preflighted, turned into a PDF 1.5, imposed, ripped and
proofed. For us it's 98% rock solid. There is always the odd ball that
gives you problems :? A year ago we were full eps workflow, so the
transition has been quick, but the results so far have been sweet. The guy
who did my job before me said that the pdf workflow would never work,
but i don't seem to see him here any more.

If you have a high end store your work will be cut out for you, but I think you
are in the right place for some good info :wink:

FWIW...

[prepress_brillance_43]

My workflow is almost all .pdf's. I am getting to the point where I don't even get native files in anymore. It's all pdf. >preflight with pitstop> send to trueflow > Trueflow takes pdf and traps, imposes(using flatworker) and RIP's an imposed pdf> I use RIPviewer to preview and then if it looks good I go to my EFI ColorPROOFXF workstation and load file that Trueflow created> Print proof >with sign off, I approve job in Trueflow to the next step and it sends to platesetter. My correct plates ratio is damn near 100%, we've been running this workflow 7 or so weeks and I have only had (just counted them) 12 plates come out wrong, and only one job make it to press wrong.... PDF workflow, to me, is pretty damn SOLID.

of course there are still people using quark 4 and Illy 8, and don't know how to create a proper pdf, I still ask for natives and support files from them, but as soon as it hits prepress it is made into a "polished pdf".

also the rare trouble file sometimes gets put through the ringer as an .eps or .ps.... but I haven't had anything as of yet that Trueflow can't handle.

[edgar]

We prefer to receive native files from clients because we can refine their work.

Once we have preflighted, refined and prepared a job we generate PDFs for sending to the backend guys. They load that pdfs in a Trueflow worflow for normalize, impose, trap and output to a proofer. Once the client signed the proof, the backend guys approve the job in Trueflow for output to the platesetter. Native files and its pdfs are archived for future purposes.

In my case, my Trueflow interprets faster the pdfs than ps or eps.

It would have sense to work internally with pdfs. They can act as digital masters for future reprints.

As for colormanagement, we still not working as a cms hub for plating and proofing. We only use cms when proofing or when open rgb photoshop images.

You have nothing to loose working with pdfs as part of your workflow.

[LadIndy]

Four words: PDF WORKFLOW, IT WORKS!

You can still color correct images in pdf's and you can color manage everything. If you use the latest Adobe Postscript 3 rip and the latest pdf format, at least version 1.4 the workflow is very smooth. You will still get those files that you need to work on in native format, but once you start getting pdfs from clients that are ready to go, it's a thing of beauty. It flys through the system (we're using Xenith Xitron rip, latest postscript 3, proofing on epson 7600 inkjet and output directly to plate). I get a few of these babies in a row and I don't want to go back to the way it was.

In my book, the faster everything becomes pdf, the better for all of us. I consider pdfs .eps files on steroids, if created correctly, they can do anything, including leaping a few tall buildings on their way out the door to be delivered!

Well said Kayla_,
I agree with you....
....now quit shaking.... your shedding on me man!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
vee

[detric_1]

I love this place!!!! You guys are awesome!

(BTW, let me note, I want to make this work in the WORST way. I belong to the church of PDF, I just wanna get closer to the altar and not get sacrificed)

Ok, to run down the list, currently for color management what we've been doing predominantly is making a profile for a stock from a pressproof and convert CT's to that. Then proof with a devicelink on our fuji's. Kick ass if you ask me for uncoated or tricky stocks. We haven't even touched any other type of color management outside of photoshop. We're starting to dip our toe in the water a little bit, but we see huge pitfalls. We've just recently changed over to Nexus, so hopefully I'll be able to play a bit more with this in the near future. As to color control, that's a different story, but for another time. (that could be it's own forum)

Currently, 99.5% of my work comes in native. We do a TREMENDOUS amount of work and modifications to our customer's files. Color being the biggest critical point. We also have unbelieveable specifications from our pressroom for how a job is to be built. My belief is that when a job comes in we should create a hi-res PDF and work it from there. Kinda like the digital master. But how do you guys handle color corex? What procedures do you have for versioning? Type patches? I've got pitstop, and it's awesome, but what do you do when you recieve a whole new file? Re-creating all the work we do up front can be a whole shift ordeal. And for sure I can't currently expect my clients to send me a pdf since they can't send me clean app files.

I'm having a hard time convincing them that this can save time in the overall life of a job. Any suggestions / specifics would be appreciated.

thanks everyone...you are great.

Dave

[edgar]

Hi Dave!

Seems to be you have the same workflow as I have but we do pdf's until files have been corrected. Look:
Preflight native files - prepare native files - create pdf's - impose, trap and proofing - if proofs were signed go to plating - if any changes in proofs go back to native files, do corrections and create pdf's only from these pages, then replace it in the imposition and go to plating.

Hey! You have been a little bit closer to be sacrificed by my but you are lucky. It's saturday and I'am relaxed.

Hope this helps.... If it don't, we will be in the same situation.

Ps. Keep archived your final pdf's because (as you said) they are digital masters for future purposes.